[21:23] howdy! [21:26] heyaz! [21:26] I need to head over to pauls [21:26] but I just realized I don't quite know exactly where that is [21:26] or even if he's home ;D [21:26] hmm [21:27] step 1 would probably be determining whether he's home. have you called his cell? [21:27] hey [21:27] Action: Dymaxion just got in [21:27] ha ha! [21:27] are you at home? [21:27] 403 e thomas st #1 [21:27] yes [21:28] that's probably really close to where you described you are, ara [21:28] it's the greyish cement building across from the park with the reddish awning [21:28] btw, I haven't had dinner yet -- ara, have you? [21:28] Action: asparagi imagines a park with a reddish awning ;) [21:29] Hehe [21:29] there's like some steps up from the street across from the park [21:29] yeah [21:31] arachne: if you haven't eaten, alex is offering to fetch an order from jai thai, if thai food sounds interestnig. [21:31] we made a plan for what to do tonight; anybuggy remember which logs it'd be in? [21:32] hrm. [21:32] I think I might have emailed something out [21:32] Action: Dymaxion notes that e still doesn't have a laptop, annoyingly. [21:32] damn [21:32] yeah, just got back form dinner [21:32] ah, ok [21:32] hence the meeting at your house [21:32] we'll figure our own food out [21:32] and no :) I can't eat thai food [21:33] I think I'm allergic to something in it [21:33] suck! [21:33] how sad :( [21:33] but thanks for the offer! [21:33] hrm, yeah -- I should figure out how to get a second chair back here. [21:33] Action: asparagi is eating pastrami from the local sub shop [21:34] i think it's really funny that the only decent restaurant i've found here is a hole-in-the-wall takeout sub shop [21:35] hehe [21:35] ok, I'm heading out in 3 minutes [21:35] ok [21:37] look, you did send out the meeting plans. :) [21:38] so, ara proposed earlier that she work on the OS X package while we work on docs [21:38] and, i have to go at like 9. [21:38] blame toby. :) [21:39] whee [21:39] Action: Dymaxion blames toby. :-) [21:40] so, i could take a stab at the ui quirks [21:40] did you write any docs already? [21:40] no, I've been really swamped [21:40] the whole new job thing is always fun [21:40] yeah [21:41] do we want the phone? [21:41] hmm [21:41] not especially, on my end anyway [21:42] ok [21:44] so, i think we should make it really easy for people to write attack stubs [21:45] possibly even an XML format [21:45] although that would be dangerous [21:46] hrm [21:46] back [21:46] with a stef [21:46] oh, look, a steph! [21:47] did you get the right one? [21:47] I think so [21:47] i mean, we wouldn't want just any steph. [21:47] Action: Dymaxion grins [21:48] so, right, attack stubs [21:48] I definitely support making them easier to mess with [21:49] it's kind of off-topic, maybe we should write docs for this release.. [21:49] yeah [21:49] docs first, everything else later. [21:49] baq! [21:49] heya! [21:49] I'd talked about a feature triage for our next meeting, so that seems like a good topic for then. [21:49] sure [21:50] Action: Dymaxion . o O ( queeboard? ) [21:50] Action: asparagi laughs [21:51] ok, here's my draft topics for the UI quirks docs: [21:51] Trike's UI Philosophy [21:51] "Normal" for a Squeak UI [21:51] Less-than-Obvious Trike UI Tricks [21:51] Known Bugs [21:51] Features We Know We Need to Add [21:52] We should have an Unknown Bugs section too. [21:52] How to Build [21:52] a bit better than the thing put out for build [21:52] 5 [21:52] Actually, what we should have is a "What happens when the debugger comes" [21:52] um, Unknown Bugs? [21:52] Action: Dymaxion grins. [21:52] ah [21:53] (that first one was a joke, although if you can write it, we should definitely include it) [21:55] That sounds like a good outline [21:55] hey, is the versioning scheme up on octotrike somewhere? [21:55] i can't find it [21:56] yes, it is [21:56] but it was really obscurely linked [21:56] http://octotrike.org/versions.html [21:57] it's linked from the tools page [21:57] i think our next version will be 1.2.0a; can we decide that now, or is that for the feature triage/release planning next time? [21:58] where it goes "Demo of Trike" [21:58] oh! [21:58] that's even where I was looking for it [21:58] :) [21:58] i mean, on that page [21:58] maybe we should link it in a little better. not sure where from [21:59] We're planning on adding features and rewriting the xml support to not suck, plus redoing exposure/asset values. Those mean file format changes, and I don't think there's any point in writing a compatibility layer. [21:59] Therefor, yes; 1.2.0a [21:59] ok. i'll refer to it that way [22:00] maybe on the tools page, just have a second heading that says "About Versioning" and put the data there? [22:00] Yeah. That sounds much more obvious. [22:00] soungs good to me [22:00] oki [22:00] gimme 3 secs [22:00] while you're there, can you cap Trike in the v1.1.2a paragraph? [22:02] done [22:02] done! [22:02] actually could we move the versions.html to have a Trike-tool-specific url? [22:02] and i have a couple changes for it: [22:02] For example, our next planned release will be named 1.1.2a: methodology version 1, tool version 1.2, approximately alpha quality. [22:03] should become [22:03] For example, the version 1.1.2a release implements methodology version 1, in tool version 1.2, of approximately alpha quality. [22:03] :( [22:03] I just deleted it [22:04] haha! [22:04] i have a copy [22:04] So, if you're looking at the UI quirks docs, I should do a "how to use trike" doc, right? [22:04] since it is on my screen [22:04] P, yahh [22:04] no, I mean the code [22:04] not the content [22:04] oh no [22:04] oh. [22:04] crap [22:04] we're not sure what you're meaning, aspa [22:04] refresh the tools page [22:04] do you not putting the versioning stuff on the tools page? [22:04] you don't like it? [22:04] oh [22:05] Action: asparagi shuts up & hits refresh [22:05] We could change that title to "About Trike Versioning", if it's not clear. [22:05] Action: asparagi searches blindly for the mind meld device [22:05] try behind the cat dish [22:06] you're right! there it is [22:06] no, it's totally clear, i just misunderstood the plan. i like it. [22:06] put Issue Tracker above About Versioning? [22:07] i hope more ppl want to file bugs than want the nitty-gritty of the versions [22:07] ok [22:07] 3 secss! [22:07] Action: Dymaxion grins [22:07] Change to "A Trike version number has 4 parts:" [22:08] and then "Version 1.1.0a should have been released to the public at ShmooCon 2005, but was so buggy it is unlikely to ever see the light of day." [22:09] lol :D [22:09] I try to keep our readers entertained. [22:09] All 3 of thea. [22:09] er, them. [22:09] Action: Dymaxion grins. [22:11] Can we rephrase the v1.1.2a release to not have the word here be a link? I don't know why that bugs me, but it does. [22:11] Action: Dymaxion looks at the IRC logs and reads up on what we're going to say on April 9th, 2006. [22:11] why are there... [22:11] whoa [22:11] i definitely have the mind meld device now [22:12] unfortunately, we didn't say anything too interesting that day -- no sneak peaks into problems we haven't run into yet. [22:12] Action: asparagi snorts [22:12] do you remember what day that really was? [22:13] was it 1/30, probably? [22:13] I'm guessing January 30, from context in the list [22:13] eyah [22:13] you can check the bottom [22:13] there would be a timestamp for the next day [22:13] starting [22:13] aspa, what do you mean by: [22:14] Can we rephrase the v1.1.2a release to not have the word here be a link? I don't know why that bugs me, but it does. [22:15] Oh, like Current bugs something something instead of Current bugs can be seen here [22:16] hmmm...I like it the way it is [22:16] unless I were to bullet them and do like [22:16] * bugs [22:16] or [22:16] * Known Issues [22:16] and then [22:16] Action: Dymaxion could go either way [22:16] * Screenshots [22:17] ooh, and * Installation Instructions [22:17] and * User Documentation [22:17] altho, i think all those bullets should be on the 1.1.2a page [22:17] instead of in the brief discription [22:17] Oh, that makes sense. [22:18] Maybe we should just take that out of the brief description [22:18] Then they could be header thingies just like they are now. [22:19] oki [22:19] I think we should change v1 build 5 Known Issues to: [22:20] "Lots, use something newer." [22:20] There are many bugs in this version of Trike. It was an alpha version we are not planning to maintain. [22:20] Use Paul's version. [22:20] does the bug tracking system track versions for us? [22:20] like "this issue is in version x.x.xa" [22:20] no, not right now [22:21] i wish we had one that did [22:21] We may want to put switching bug tracking systems on the table for next week [22:21] yah [22:21] i think i am the one who was supposed to look at that [22:21] i mean, evaluating them [22:23] !zope [22:23] please pleaxse pretty pretty plz [22:23] on the shmoocon 2005 talk page change the slides & demo thing to [22:24] If you were at the talk, you recall that the slides and demo didn't work entirely properly. Well, they still don't, and they aren't going to. [22:24] Sorry. [22:25] Yes, Zopeless bugs is on my requirements list [22:25] ok, refresh [22:25] on the tools page [22:25] and the 1.1.2a page [22:27] on tools, the example version number paragraph still needs to be updated to reflect that we released v1 [22:27] er, 1.1.2 [22:27] a [22:27] where? [22:28] oh, go to 1.2.0 [22:28] ? [22:28] just before "Exceptions" [22:29] "For example, our next planned release... [22:29] For example, the version 1.1.2a release implements methodology version 1, in tool version 1.2, of approximately alpha quality. [22:29] ok, refresh! [22:30] Sure, that work [22:30] on 1.1.2a, it's the "here" with an around it that bugs me [22:31] what else should I put? [22:31] See Trike in action. [22:31] ? [22:31] I dunno [22:31] hmm...that sounds like we have a flash demo [22:32] how about [22:32] We took some stills of Trike 1.1.2a [22:32] that one's better anyway [22:33] stills? [22:33] i just want the link text to [22:33] ok, that's dorky toa [22:33] wow, dorky toa, it's like krakatoa [22:33] Action: ar4chne gets the feeling aspa is trying to avoid document writing [22:33] say screenshots again? [22:33] ;D [22:34] no, i just want the link text to be descriptive [22:34] of what you are going to see when you click on it [22:34] but ok [22:34] i'll go get to work [22:34] it says "see screenshots" [22:34] :P [22:36] Action: asparagi doesn't want to context-switch away from updating the web site until we have fixed all the places it sounds like 1.1.2a isn't really here yet [22:36] Action: Dymaxion nods [22:37] e.g. on the 1.1.2a screenshot page, it says "development system" but should maybe say "Trike 1.1.2a" instead [22:38] we need to change the "When is the next release of trike coming" question on the faq as well [22:38] yeah [22:38] so...when is the next release of trike coming? :D [22:38] Action: Dymaxion starts a list for next time [22:38] maybe for now we should say something like we're still planning it [22:39] that's a good question. Why don't we get back to you next week. [22:39] hee hee [22:39] :P [22:39] I think that should be the answer. :-) [22:39] Works for me [22:39] although i'm not sure we'll know next week either [22:40] although we might know broad strokes features i suppose [22:40] oh, I didn't mean to specify any *specific* week with that answer... [22:40] just you know, next week. [22:40] I think in question 9 we should really include a link to the microsoft tool if we are going to use the word purport [22:41] since it actually is a threat modeling tool [22:41] i don't want to accidentally dis it [22:41] faq updated [22:42] nah, I think that question is fine [22:44] Could we add something about a plan to post a list later, then? [22:44] like what? [22:45] "At some point in the future, we may post a threat modeling tool comparison chart." [22:45] or something... [22:45] For the individual talks pages, we should note that the language on the pages comes from the conference programs -- it sounds weirdish now. [22:48] sure.. [22:59] paul's making fun of my spelling of broshure! [22:59] Action: Dymaxion grins [22:59] hee hee [22:59] sure, bro.. [22:59] like I shoudl talk most of the time... [23:01] ok, I think I nailed anything [23:01] s/anything/everything/ [23:01] *pant*pant*pant* [23:01] Action: Dymaxion grins. [23:01] Action: Dymaxion throws the context switch. [23:01] bzzaaaap [23:01] you go, ara! [23:02] do we want to talk about docs some now? [23:02] I'm sorry I missed so much stuff :/ [23:03] no worries [23:03] not your fault... we were the ones who gave you the list [23:03] I've check something into svn that tries to list all the things we just changed that we'll need to do next release [23:04] just thought if we were spiffing it up & adding docs, we should do a little site maint too [23:04] i've been poking at the ui quirks [23:04] but it is hardly usable [23:04] it is also 9pm [23:04] ok [23:05] do you want to send something out over email if you have time to get it together before the next meeting? [23:05] can we all make it next wed? [23:05] yes, i will [23:05] Action: Dymaxion will try to work on a basic user's guide. [23:05] I can [23:05] and you should do the same [23:05] I'll work on getting the dmg up before tomorrow morning, too [23:05] yeah [23:06] altho, I have to be on a plane in 8 hours or so [23:06] :D [23:06] with a little sleep, i hope [23:06] can you send the outline we talked about up above out to the list too, asp, so I don't duplicate anything on it? [23:06] sure [23:06] cool [23:07] cool, we all have action items [23:07] yay [23:07] i'll see y'all next week [23:07] haha, now I know you started working at a corp, aspa [23:07] see you next week [23:07] don't work too much [23:07] hehe [23:07] ;D I'd never heard the term 'action items' until then [23:07] you neither [23:08] yeah, they call them ARs, though [23:08] i forget what the r is for [23:08] heh [23:08] do pirates get ARrrrrrrrs? [23:09] wow [23:09] i hope i remember that next year for talk like a pirate day [23:09] haha :D [23:09] oki, heading out [23:09] Action: Dymaxion grins [23:09] tty1 [23:09] yay, trike release! [23:09] ok. see y'all later [23:09] up [23:09] yay! [23:09] yup, even [00:00] --- Fri Feb 10 2006